After convincing his reformed felon brother to hold up the bank where the map to a lost goldmine is stored, a disenchanted insurance salesman must finish the job himself when his brother is shot dead by the obstinate bank manager during the heist

Ha! I thought exactly the same thing when I wrote it -- that's the damn logline -- or the actual seeds of it.

Love that quote.

Thanks again.

"ex con bro teaches geeky younger bro the art of the heist, but when the ex con bro is killed in heist and geeky bro must find the courage to save the day?"

Hmm, do I sense the makings of a logline? A seed of a plot?

IMHO, a good logline triggers the imagination. Maybe not with same story ideas you have in mind. But it gets other minds cooking with ideas and curious to know what you've come up with.

The above, more than any other variation you've posted to date, gets my mind cooking.

I think you have the basic ingredients -- now to figure out a winning recipe and bake the cake.

So keep cooking the concept and if a recipe flops, well, one of my favorite writing quotes is from John Lasseter, executive producer of most of Pixars 'flops': "Be wrong as fast as you can."

Regards and best wishes.

Yeah -- been trying to run before I can walk, methinks.

I've been wanting to blend genre's before learning how to simply hit the beats of one. My idea was to blend an educational plot with a heist plot (ex con bro teachers geeky younger bro the art of the heist, only to have ex con bro killed in heist and geeky bro to find the courage to save the day...)... and at the risk of sounding all '...think Die Hard... ON A BUS!' -- think Dog Day Afternoon meets The Karate Kid with a nod and a wink to American Beauty... perhaps a tad ridiculous, I know, but what can I say, I'm an absolute beginner.

Thanks so much for providing what are some great beats/ guides to the Heist genre, something I think I should follow -- for at least the first bloody draft anyway ;)

...and your insights are no bloviations -- they make me think 'who the hell needs film school when there's dpg!'

Cheers.

Tony,

I l-o-v-e "The Bank Job"! Like you said, one thing going for it is that is based upon real events. Truth is stranger than fiction - and that makes it easier to pitch a seemingly improbable story.

Notice in the opening scene of "The Bank Job", it's established that Terry, the family man, is not squeaky clean. An employee is rolling back the miles on the odometer of a car. And he partners up with Martine, a woman with a shady past and present. There are hints in the conversation between them that he has a shady past and that they were a couple in that past. That is why Martine is now soliciting him for the bank job.

Your logline reads like a plot for a heist genre movie. Therefore, like it or not, these are elements script readers and studio executives expect to see in the script:

+ A big theft. Substantial money or wealth is at stake.
+ It?s never just about the money. It?s about revenge, punishment, vindication.
+ Ergo, the mark has to be at fault for the crime to be justified. It can't be a crime against an innocent.
+ The suspense is whether they get away with it.
+++ The dramatic interest is in the details of HOW the heist is pulled off.

(Notice, I mark the last item with extra pluses. This is the most important element in the genre. The fun and games that sustains the audience's interest is procedural, how they go about the heist.)

As you may have noticed, a focus on a character's personal or family life is not on the list. It's useful when it can be worked in as a "B" story that dovetails into the "A" story (see Ocean's 11) -- but it's not primary to the genre.

And it's import is often revealed as the "A" story unfolds. (For example, though there's a plant in the opening, the big reveal of Danny's Ocean's primary motivation for robbing those 3 particular Vegas casinos doesn't come until 45 minutes into the film. At the point, the audience discovers that the most important stakes for Danny are love; he wants to win back his ex-wife,Tess, from the ruthless casino owner, Terry Benedict.)

Yada-yada. Sorry to bloviate. My takeaway is that like it or not, Hollyweird will pigeonhole your logline into the heist genre. And the above elements are what they WANT to see when they read the script.

Regards and best wishes.

Your instincts are bang on -- on a couple of fronts: yes, I have been going about it in that way, as in 'casting about for a suitable character...' as opposed to the other way around... A problem. The inspiration for wanting to write this in the first place was seeing 'The Bank Job' and realizing they missed the most interesting thing in the story (also based on facts...) which is that the main thief had his own car yard, a family etc... The film barely touches on it it does to some extent, but to me is the most interesting element...). I wanted to know why/ how somebodylike that could resort to robbing a bank.

'Dog Day' would be in my top 5 films of all time, and the novice that I am have definitely had it as a bit of a yard stick.

Again, this is my first screenplay, and half the point was to use it to find my feet and learn the ropes as opposed to thinking I could hoc it out. I think my insecurities over my lack of experience has had me WAY too plot focused and not charcter focused... And character drives plot, not the other way around, as you've pointed out.

Thanks again.

Tony,
I sympathize with your creative struggle. Your instincts are right that your protagonist has to do it for more than the money or the gold. But my impression so far is that of a concept casting about for a suitable character rather than a character who drives the concept.

"Dog Day Afternoon" comes to mind. Which was based on a true event, a botched bank robbery by an anti-hero, a loser. His motivation was to get money to pay for his boyfriend's sex change operation. (Can you make that stuff up and sell it in a log line? Truth is stranger that fiction.)

...

When an unassuming office clerk discovers the identity of his Father's killer is locked in a safe box at a small town bank he elists the help of his reformed ex-con brother to hold it up.

An out of work salesman must uphold his fathers' legacy by stealing back a valuable family heirloom from a greedy bank manager at a small town bank.

I hear you dpg. I'm stuck between a couple of ways in which this story could go.

In 1:

Our hero's dead father was obsessed with the idea that the map to this lost gold mine was locked up at the town bank. Our hero wants to not only get the gold, but prove his father was right (guilt issues/ not being there when he died etc...). He coerces his ex-con bro to help him by playing the main perp, while our hero tried to crack the safe -- bro gets shot dead, hero must finish the job... he does, and gets the gold.

In 2:

He's more of an anti-hero (smarmy irresponsible out of work salesman...) - who becomes a tragic hero, more of a crime and punishment tale -- he still faces a similar dilemma in in that he has to finish the job, but there's a pretty young bank teller who double crosses him in the end.

In either case capitulating all in the logline has (quite obviously) been a real struggle.

Your advice as always has been invaluable. I'll keep on hammering it out.

I hear you dpg -- it was his Father's theory that the map to this lost goldmine was kept at the bank -- our hero wants to prove his Dad was right (and get the gold, of course...), enlists the help of reformed ex-con bro, and it all goes horribly wrong when his brother is killed and he must face his fears to finish the job himself... really struggling to concisely fit this in a logline, bit of a soup at the moment.

Your advice/ criticism has thus far been invaluable.

I'll keep hammering it out.

Taken at face value, all the logline says is the amateur must work up the nerve to commit a criminal act. I have no clue as to why his action is morally justified, no reason to sympathize with his crime, root for his success.

Thanks Jeremy, have had some great feedback from those here, particularly helpful given the concept doesn't seem exactly high concept.

'Do-gooder' I like, and was where I originally started with the idea (way before I fully grasped the importance of a logline)...

I think I'm starting to get a handle on it now... When THIS happens a SOMEBODY must do THIS in order to achieve THAT.

Gotta love that java :)

I just wanted heighten the objective goal...

When his brother is shot during a bank hold up to steal the map to a lost legendary goldmine, an amateur thief must find the nerve to finish the job himself.

The End.

:0

... And 'find the nerve' nails it!

Nice brenkilco.... I think I might get some sleep tonight ;)

When his brother is killed during a bank robbery he planned, an irresponsible amateur must find the nerve to finish the job.

Thanks Tor -- again you've managed to get this down to under twenty words while I'm struggling to get it under thirty!

The only issue with yours is that it's not actually the brother's dirty work -- the whole plan is the salesman's, so it's that he has to finish his OWN dirty work. It's connected to the main theme; 'disenchanted' doesn't really nail the salesman's flaw, I'm still working on it, but it's more about the fact that he has never taken responsibility for his own actions... and is forced to do so.

Thanks again.

"A disenchanted salesman is forced to finish his dead brother?s dirty work when a bank heist goes south. "

Hey Tony, you're still trying to put to much in... just my opinion.

Remember what a logline is for... it needs to go smack-wow and then end, making the "reader" want more - your script!

What's the story about? Is it JUST the robbery... from start to end? Or does he get the map and continue on the journey?

When a well-planned bank heist goes south, the fate of a hidden map to a lost gold mine rests with a do-gooder insurance salesman.

as a starting point anyway... I'm caffeine deprived

Apologies to anyone getting a bit tired of this... still trying crack that nut.